Comments on: Internet Explorer 8 beta 1 http://www.webdevout.net/tidings/2008/03/06/internet-explorer-8-beta-1/ Updates on the march of progress. A weblog about web design, standards, web browsers, and the overall health of the Web. Wed, 14 Dec 2011 14:45:24 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.4 hourly 1 By: Daniel http://www.webdevout.net/tidings/2008/03/06/internet-explorer-8-beta-1/comment-page-1/#comment-4111 Daniel Wed, 20 Aug 2008 13:22:54 +0000 http://www.webdevout.net/tidings/2008/03/06/internet-explorer-8-beta-1/#comment-4111 Ah, I've found that video again and it actually starts at August 2007, so I can't tell wether the starting point has anything to do with IE7's engine or not.. Ah, I’ve found that video again and it actually starts at August 2007, so I can’t tell wether the starting point has anything to do with IE7’s engine or not..

Posted using Mozilla Firefox 3.0.1 on Windows.

]]> By: Daniel http://www.webdevout.net/tidings/2008/03/06/internet-explorer-8-beta-1/comment-page-1/#comment-4110 Daniel Thu, 14 Aug 2008 14:34:51 +0000 http://www.webdevout.net/tidings/2008/03/06/internet-explorer-8-beta-1/#comment-4110 Mitch, you're probably not further reading this. Anyway, I found something new (well old) in IE8b1. I wrote a design with a link with a double border. On hover, the border-style changes to be solid. In IE8b1, as well as IE 5.5 not only the style gets changed, but also the thickness of the border went from 3px to 4px.. Also, remeber the video when MS announced IE8 will pass Acid2? The video started from IE7 and incrementally improved on it's way to IE8. I don't say that's evidence, but it's when the rendering engine is said to be written from scratch. Mitch, you’re probably not further reading this. Anyway, I found something new (well old) in IE8b1.

I wrote a design with a link with a double border. On hover, the border-style changes to be solid.

In IE8b1, as well as IE 5.5 not only the style gets changed, but also the thickness of the border went from 3px to 4px..

Also, remeber the video when MS announced IE8 will pass Acid2? The video started from IE7 and incrementally improved on it’s way to IE8.

I don’t say that’s evidence, but it’s when the rendering engine is said to be written from scratch.

Posted using Mozilla Firefox 3.0.1 on Windows.

]]> By: Daniel http://www.webdevout.net/tidings/2008/03/06/internet-explorer-8-beta-1/comment-page-1/#comment-4109 Daniel Fri, 01 Aug 2008 14:40:28 +0000 http://www.webdevout.net/tidings/2008/03/06/internet-explorer-8-beta-1/#comment-4109 Well, it was not the complete software but the rendering engine for standards mode. That'd mean the sole CSS engine. They are also aware that old software is expecting something different. That's why Windows should be able to run with IE 5.5 while websites are still IE8 viewed. At least they got some DOM bugs fixed. About hasLayout and the above statement. One can't tell, which is right. Wilson states it's a new render (CSS) engine from scratch, Mielke goes into your direction and says that hasLayout should've never been exposed and that's why they removed it now. Removing hasLayout could mean a new engine as well as hiding it. Who will ever be able to tell. Well again, in one or two weeks well see what beta 2 will look like. Well, it was not the complete software but the rendering engine for standards mode. That’d mean the sole CSS engine.

They are also aware that old software is expecting something different. That’s why Windows should be able to run with IE 5.5 while websites are still IE8 viewed.

At least they got some DOM bugs fixed.

About hasLayout and the above statement. One can’t tell, which is right. Wilson states it’s a new render (CSS) engine from scratch, Mielke goes into your direction and says that hasLayout should’ve never been exposed and that’s why they removed it now. Removing hasLayout could mean a new engine as well as hiding it. Who will ever be able to tell.

Well again, in one or two weeks well see what beta 2 will look like.

Posted using Mozilla Firefox 3.0.1 on Windows.

]]> By: Mitch 74 http://www.webdevout.net/tidings/2008/03/06/internet-explorer-8-beta-1/comment-page-1/#comment-4108 Mitch 74 Mon, 28 Jul 2008 13:02:21 +0000 http://www.webdevout.net/tidings/2008/03/06/internet-explorer-8-beta-1/#comment-4108 At what time is a piece of software considered new? When it's been so extensively rewritten that the only remains of the old code are a few one-liners here and there, and routines so simple there isn't any benefit in rewriting them? It is also true that, due to the way IE interacts with the rest of the system, a bug we may feel comes from IE in fact comes from the scripting engine, or COM, or the XML parser... But that would also mean that updating IE means rewriting a bunch of systems, and yet we didn't see a Jscript upgrade (a Jscript-to-COM update maybe, but not 'pure' Js) in quite a while. No, I'd say they got rid of the hasLayout problem, but not the underlying mechanism; hasLayout was switched to private in Uberstrict mode, and the added shims that redraw all parent boxes when a child box changes size, instead of doing the complicated but much cleaner rewrite of IE's layout engine. Or maybe, that's the target for IE8b2 - that or they'll add yet another layer of shims to prevent the 'scroll back to top' or 'add padding to element's margin' bugs. If they do so, I'm pretty sure that someone out there will hit a brand new bug in the layout engine. At what time is a piece of software considered new? When it’s been so extensively rewritten that the only remains of the old code are a few one-liners here and there, and routines so simple there isn’t any benefit in rewriting them?

It is also true that, due to the way IE interacts with the rest of the system, a bug we may feel comes from IE in fact comes from the scripting engine, or COM, or the XML parser…

But that would also mean that updating IE means rewriting a bunch of systems, and yet we didn’t see a Jscript upgrade (a Jscript-to-COM update maybe, but not ‘pure’ Js) in quite a while.

No, I’d say they got rid of the hasLayout problem, but not the underlying mechanism; hasLayout was switched to private in Uberstrict mode, and the added shims that redraw all parent boxes when a child box changes size, instead of doing the complicated but much cleaner rewrite of IE’s layout engine. Or maybe, that’s the target for IE8b2 – that or they’ll add yet another layer of shims to prevent the ’scroll back to top’ or ‘add padding to element’s margin’ bugs. If they do so, I’m pretty sure that someone out there will hit a brand new bug in the layout engine.

Posted using Mozilla Firefox 3.0.1 on Linux.

]]> By: Daniel http://www.webdevout.net/tidings/2008/03/06/internet-explorer-8-beta-1/comment-page-1/#comment-4107 Daniel Fri, 25 Jul 2008 15:04:16 +0000 http://www.webdevout.net/tidings/2008/03/06/internet-explorer-8-beta-1/#comment-4107 <blockquote cite="http://www.webdevout.net/tidings/2008/03/06/internet-explorer-8-beta-1/#comment-4106">do you agree that when I call bull on IE8’s engine being all new, but in fact still based on IE(4 or 5)’s Trident engine with another load of fixes (good) and shims (bad), I’m not completely off my rocker?</blockquote> I can't really believe either that IE8's standards mode is completely new. But who can tell in which ways the JavaScript/CSS/Parser and what not all systems are connected in IE? The hasLayout example I mentioned above makes me wonder wether it's new or not. but it could be a dynamic style bug that's connected with Scripting (remember hasLayout was meant as data structure). I think we'll never know.. I guess beta 2 will show us what we can expect. It's my main hope at the moment. though I'm getting critical when I hear they want to release IE8 this year..

do you agree that when I call bull on IE8’s engine being all new, but in fact still based on IE(4 or 5)’s Trident engine with another load of fixes (good) and shims (bad), I’m not completely off my rocker?

I can’t really believe either that IE8’s standards mode is completely new. But who can tell in which ways the JavaScript/CSS/Parser and what not all systems are connected in IE? The hasLayout example I mentioned above makes me wonder wether it’s new or not. but it could be a dynamic style bug that’s connected with Scripting (remember hasLayout was meant as data structure). I think we’ll never know..
I guess beta 2 will show us what we can expect. It’s my main hope at the moment. though I’m getting critical when I hear they want to release IE8 this year..

Posted using Mozilla Firefox 3.0.1 on Windows.

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